Through the Scarlet Letter, Hawthorne presents his conception of the Human Condition- what it means to be human. What do his views say about humanity? What do you feel is at the core of the Human Condition? Love? Curiosity? Fear? Sin? Evil? Why do you think so? What in your life has shaped your views on man? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_condition
-Two posts by october 2
Posts
82 comments:
Hawthorne had made his characters all go through some turmoil, which had shaped them into the people that they were. Hester's experience with the scarlet letter had made her a woman who was strong and loyal. At first she was viewed as a horrible sinner, but her good deeds made up for it towards the ending. Dimmesdale's character showed how the soul is affected and tortured by guilt. I think that Hawthorne also showed that all people eventually do something wrong or make mistakes in their life, and that no one is pure good.
I feel that the very core of the human condition is love. We become who we are through love, as cheesy as that sounds. All people crave it from somewhere, and some like to spread it to others. How much love we get in our lives also shape us. We see people in the news, whose mothers or fathers neglected them, and sometimes that has a great impact on their character. I also see people who act out to get that attention they seek, which they had missed out on. Those who had love in their lives also seem to turn out good in the future. However, too much love could be bad as well. The person might feel too dependent or it can shape them into spoiled brats.
In all honesty though, I think that there is a little bit of everything that factors in on the human condition, but the most obvious factor to me would be love.
As Dominika was able to describe before, Hawthorne troubled all his characters throughout the novel. Hawthorne was a man obsessed with dead and guilt, his morbidness was able to reflect off his characters. He wasn't too much of an optimist, and doesn't think too highly of human beings in general, us being complicated, being able to show a vast array of different kinds of emotions and ideas. Everyone and everything is just so amazingly complicated. Just as his opinion on symbolism, how it can be interpreted in too many ways.
As for the core of Human Condition, I believe it's a giant mix of all. It honestly depends on the person itself. All of the ideas of love, curiosity, fear, sin, and evil are all able to make a person crazy; yet, all are able to satisfy a person. But, to me, I believe (agreeing with Dominika again...) love is very important concerning Human Condition. Love and affection, they're important all around. They decide your likes, dislikes, and what you're able to see as pleasing. Along with other humans as well. Just the fact that we're able to love and show advanced feelings for certain things. Being loved and cared for is what gives people confidence, happiness, self-esteem, and many other things. Oh, and, it's not only about loving objects and other people, it's also a matter of loving yourself, as well. Accepting yourself for what you are and whatnot, which can lead to the other Human Condition topics. But, everything just can't be enclosed in one topic. As I said before, all of them matter and effect everyday life, but in everyone, there are certain topics that stick out more. In the end, to me, love would be the core of Human Condition.
Like Dominika said, Hawthorne did trouble his characters in the novel one way or the other. Hawthorne's views on man, like we discussed in class, were that man was evil from the start and that man was bound to do evil/sin in his lifetime. I on the other hand think that all humans are good from the beginning. Like Dominika said, how we grow up can affect, effect?, how a person is.
Over all, I would have to agree with what Hiten said about human nature being made out of many different things. To single out one of those things as the most important, I think would not be a just way to describe what makes up human nature.
Before I read anyone else's comments, I would like to add my own without any outside influence.
First of all I don't think that Hawthorne believed in people very much. To me it seems like he thought we would chose evil over good it benefited us in anyway and that naturally, people are not innocent or good, or anything but sinful. In this novel he clearly shows that it is in our nature to sin.
From there I have to say that it may be true that we are bound to sin, but I think that humans are basically good. Love and curiosity are the two traits that I would say are at humans' core. Love, of course, because everyone wants to be loved. Felons probably were never taught how to love, and that may be the kind of person that you would point to as someone without love, but it may not have been his/her fault. Curiosity is another one because I picture that as the reason most bad things were invented. Like bio-warfare chemicals would originally been combined to see what they could do, and look at that they make things explode! I have no idea why I think this way about curiosity, but I did go to a Catholic school, and obviously they were all for the loving humans thing.
Gloria (my blogger name wasn't working)
I agree with Dominika. Hawthorne does put his characters through a lot of sorrow and misery. These sorrows and miseries actually do help actually do help shape the characters (as Dominika said). I also agree with Hiten. Hawthorne does view the world very negatively. I think his negative view is ased on his own life and guilt from his ancestory.
The core of Human Condition includes love, curiosity, fear, sin, and evil. The most effective character of human condition is love. Dominika's point is true. Love can shape you for better or for worse. Just the right amount of love does give you a good shape. Your spouse has certain, indescribable love for you and your parents have an undying love for you. In other cases, too much love could cause you to go a little crazy. You need to do something with that love to help ease the craziness.
Curiosity is another part of human condition. Everyone has a curious trait within them self. It is how you control the curiosity that shapes you. If you let curiosity get the best of you, you will be considered nosey and no one would want to trust you. On the other hand, if you control the curiosity, then people are more apt to come and talk to you. They can trust you with secrets and troubles that they need help with. Knowing that you will wait for them to come to you, instead of budding into their business, shows a great sign of friendship.
What has helped me view humans in this way is a friendship. I don't always bug my friend to tell me what is wrong, she tells me on her own terms. She trusts me, and her trust has helped shaped my views of the human race. I think someone's human condition is the basis of his/her personality. You can tell with certain people's personal traits which part of the human condition affects them to be who they are.
I didn't answer this in my original post. To be human means to make mistakes. Everyone makes mistakes and no one is perfect. We were all born in original sin. No one can aviod this. Sin always surrounds us and most mistakes are sins. Whispering behind the teacher's back is a sin. On the bright side, there are other things that makes being human better. Happiness, love, and caring is what makes life fulfilling.
I agree with Shehryar along on the religion aspect. Religion is world wide, and it's something that's able to change people completely. Some people are protective of what they believe in to be is true in the world. Relying on, most of the time, "blind faith" so they would hopefully worry less about their own lives. But, as exhibited in The Scarlet Letter, religion also has the power to tear people apart. An obvious example is Dimmesdale. His religion claimed his sin as wrong, thus Dimmesdale scolding himself and living with guilt from something that is supposedly good. Though there are people out there that are too keen on organized religion(me claiming myself as Agnostic), most people are. Differences in religion could also cause problems for Human Condition in general. Well, differences in anything, for that matter. Some people are able to tolerate and some not so much.
I wasn't able to cover the last part of the question in my last post, rather I forgot to. For quite a number of years now, I've been able to learn about people in general. How intolerant people are, and how willing people are to get their biased thoughts through. I've been believing for quite some time that religion just complicates life more, thus complicating man. Obviously, it's the differences between things that cause controversy. I find it funny, one of the "Paradoxes of The Human Condition", number three, "Humans hope for everlasting life, but are always inventing new ways to destroy each other." I've honestly been thinking the same thing. Though I can't completely relate since I would never want to live for an unreasonably long time, but the fact that we're creating things that could easily kill each other. Just at the fact at how capable we are of death, and other various things. We're capable of terrible things, but we're also able to show love and compassion from the same mind. It's amazing how wide the range is.
Hawthorne's views of the human condition is that man is flawed and subject to sin. Man is driven by emotions and mortality. Hawthorne illistrates that being human means that we will make mistakes. The questions become what can we learn from our mistakes, what are we willing to do about the mistakes, and whether or not we can rise above them.
In the story, Hester committed the sin of adultery, as did Dimmesdale. She chose to take responsibility for her actions and found a way to redeem herself. Although she had sinned and was alienated by her society she chose to rise above everything and did good deeds for others. She understood that living life wasn't just about being right or wrong, that there is more to it. She realized that living was complicated.
Dimmesdale on the other hand, dealt with his sin by concealing the truth and allowing his guilt to spiritually and physically destroy him.
Hawthorne wants to show the readers that we are able to make choices in terms of how we live our life and deal with our mistakes.
I believe that the core of the human condition is our need to be connected to one another. We are not built spiritually to exist alone. We thrive and are able to grow as individuals based on our human interaction and contact.
My views on man have been shaped by my environmant. The people I interact with everyday, my family, friends, teachers, and fellow students. I've been shaped by the lessons I've been taught and the love I have been given. I believe that man is basically good, bui is not perfect. Everyone struggles with temptation, needs, and emotions, but overall mankind has good intentions.
I think that Hawthorne's views say that humans in all are sinners, but they range from different types. For some, it is sin out of love, like Hester and Dimmesdale, but some sin is out of evilness like Chillingworth.
Also, i think Hawthorne is saying that humans are hypocritical too. I think this because in the book all of the townspeople point the finger at Hester and make her feel so shameful, when in reality they probably are sinners too.
I feel that the core of human condition is curiosity and love, like Gloria said. I think this because everyone in this world is curious all the time. Moreover, people want to know what the future might hold in different situations, therefore curiosity comes in. Sometimes, though, being curious leads to sin, therefore i don't think that the core of human condition is sin.
Also, i think love is at the core of human condition too, because as Gloria said, everyone wants to be loved no matter what. It is a constant need in humans, that will never go away. Unfortunately, some people don't know how to love or get love the right way, and that may lead to sin. But, I think the main reason love is the core of human condition because being loved or loving something makes people feel secure, and security is a major factor in hapiness.
-Abby Whalen
I feel that Hawthorne has a negative view of humans in general, like most people have already said. This is true since in the book he writes about Puritans and they are the people who are so strict, anything can be considered a sin if twisted the right way. He write about characters in his book who have committed major sins so that leads me to believe he thinks everyone is evil and a sinner. The theme of guilt has a major role in this book and if Hawthorne didn't think guilt played a major role in our lives today, then he wouldn't have written it. So, he views humanity as people who just do wrong.
to answer to the second part of the question, I feel that the core of human condition is love like dominika said. I feel that in this life, we all want someone to love us whether it be from a friend,cousin,mom or dad. Love also is the core condition of humans since you have to love yourself too. It is said that in order to love another person, you have to love yourself first. If you don't love yourself it could breed hate. A time in my life that has shaped my views on man is everyday of my life. There are so many different type of people and by getting to know a variety of people, you get to see what "man" is like. Some people just take from the world. Others give back and treat everyone fairly. It all goes back to when you were young and if, and how much, you were loved.
I think what Hawthorne is trying to say about humanity is that people are all bad but can be bent to do good. In my opinion everybody is different. One person might be focused more on contributing to the world in a good way, while another person might be seeking to make their life and someone elses miserable. I agree with ally and dominika that the core of human condition is love because in order to get loved you have to give love. If someone doesn't feel loved than they will only know the feeling of hatred, but introduce them to love and they will understand what it really means. In my life, my view on man varies. Initially everybody starts out the same. They're not sure what feelings to express. But as time progresses they become more open and vulnerable. To me this shows that a person can shape their life to be any way they want it to be.
I also agree with what basically everyone else has said about Hawthorne's views on man. We know he thinks man is evil based on the scarlet letter and the ministers black veil. In both these stories man had committed sin. It is also sort of ironic that the main sinners were ministers, well other than Hester. This shows that he believes that everyone is sinful and evil, even if they are someone religious like a minister. It's hard to tell if Hawthorne sees good in man at all.
I also agree with dominika about how love is at the core of the human condition. I think love is what guides our life. Without it, we wouldn't love ourselves and we wouldn't be happy. If we didn't love our family and have trust in them we wouldn't have anyone to talk to and support us. Also, if we never fell in love, we probably wouldnt be happy and we wouldn't get to experience many things or just know the feeling of what it is like to be in love. Without love, we would probably sin even more. We wouldn't have anyone to help influence our decisions and help us through those hard times. I think the love from my friends and family has helped change my view on life and other people.
Hawthorne shows that humans are just that; humans.
They all make mistakes, lie, break promises, just as we do, at many points throughout our lives. However, it's the way we respond and react to the mistakes that make us who we are.
As Abby mentioned, Hester and Dimmesdale both committed the same sin. Hester, however, admitted to her wrongdoing and took responsibility. Furthermore, she grew a stronger woman from her mistake.
Dimmesdale, on the other hand, did not accept responsibility for the other half of the sin (although it wasn't entirely his choice). He grew weaker and lifeless as the novel progressed.
Hawthorne shows, through these two characters, that how we respond to our sins/mistakes shapes who we are as people.
I also like what ljhad said about curiosity and how it has both negative and positive things about it.
As we all have said, there is no single thing that makes human condition, but some might outshine the rest. It all depends on the person, I guess.
Before I read any of the other posts...In The Scarlet Letter Hawthorne seemed to feel that at the core of every human being there was evil and sin.
I think that some people can be "evil" at times, but I think that the biggest thing in a human being is love. I think that because Hester and Dimmesdale committed adultery because they loved each other. Also Hester didn't want Dimmesdale to confess which showed that she loved and cared about him, so she didn't want him to get in trouble. And even though Roger Chillingworth seemed like the bad guy throughout the whole story, I think he was only like this because he was mad and jealous for what Hester and Dimmesdale did, but at one point in his life he did love Hester so that's what caused him to be so vengeful.
I believe that Hawethorne's novel portrays humans as very complex beings, who try to make their lives as tolerable as possible. His views on humanity are very negative and morbid, since they reflect his idea that humanity is not only greatly flawed, but generally filled with evil and maliciousness. I believe that at the heart of the Human Condition is greed. When I think about life, I realize that all people do is want; they want items, love, money, power, and prestige, among many other things depending on the person. I don't believe anything in particular has shaped my views on man, but observation. If you really think about it, everyone is just living to achieve or acquire something; good grades, getting into a good college, a good mate, a good paying job, that new car. As horrible as it may seem, I think that's all that fuels humans to live; to become better then other people, and to earn enough to buy that new car, which will make them happy (for a week).
I also agree with Hiten's view on relgion, regarding how it can give someone purpose. I, however, believe that people adopt religion to try and give themselves a more meaningful sounding purpose, and to make themselves feel more civilized; people are horrified to think of themselves with animal like charactaristics of wanting to become higher up on the food chain of status, and they want to try and be less selfish.
-julier
In my earlier post, i had said I think love is at the core of the human condition. However, now i also agree with what Julie said about how greed is at the heart of the human condition. I never thought about greed as a factor, but people do just want things just like Julie said. Greed can be both good and bad. We all want certain things like love, happiness, and good friends which will make us all better pepople. However, other perople want things like power and money and will do anything to get them. I think that by seeing greedy people it has changed my views on man in some way. Some people are only greedy for the good things while others aren't. I think greedy people are one of the reasons why man is viewed as evil.
I agree with most of the comments about eh fact that Hawthorne believes that humans are mostly bad. I think he does this based on past personal experiences, such as the ones where he feels the guilt for his ancestors, who participated in the witch trials. I also think that Hawthorne wants to show us, throughout his book, that people are susceptable to change. They will be influenced by different things, which will determine whether or not they will become more holy. I also believe that by only having Hester and Dimmesdale confess shows that hawthorne believes that only a few people out of the majority will not change for the better, but will stay evil, as they were born.
Generally, I think that at the core of the human condition, there is greed, just as Julie said. I think this is so because many people are only driven by their wants. I do however, think that greed may not be the appropriate word for everyone. All people have greed in some way or another, such as wanting better things than everyone else, or other such things, but most also have curiosity, which can turn into perseverence. This is so becaue many people want to achieve great things for their own benefit, or because of tehir beliefs. For example, if one wants to become a doctor because they find it fascinating to be able to study the human diseases and behaviors, they will want to pursue their goals due to curiosity of finding ou new infromation, and due to perseverence due to striving to get through college.
I know that because I feel that striving for goals, and curiosity are imprtant to me, I now view different people based on their interests, and not their belongings. I think that I learned to view man as naturally curious of everything, whether it be the natural world, or material things, humans want to aquire knowledge and apply it to themselves. I also agree with Hawthorne about the fact that people change during their lives. The state at which we are all curious and openly show it is when we are small children. We have an unknown universe before us, and we readily display our curiosity. As we grow up, we tend tyo hide the curiosity, and become influenced by our peers and events in our lives. This causes the curiosity to be shown less and pssibly die down.
It isn’t that Hawthorne sees humans negatively; it’s that Hawthorne sees them realistically. We, humans, are mostly like animals even through our civilized views. We often act out of our emotions and needs much like animals do, and those actions are usually not portrayed as good ones. For example, we feel a need to stay with the more popular people (or the “leaders” of a “pack”) than we do of those that act strange and are picked on. This novel would not be as well known if it showed the uncommon sunny optimistic side of humans. It is because Hawthorne portrays the Puritan mainstream thinking and the sunny optimistic side that can grow out of exclusion that the novel shows the reality of human nature.
Personally, I don’t see a core trait in humans. I think that we’re only a little better than animals since we’re a jumble of actions based on instinct and emotions. It’s easy to find when observing how people act according to society’s rules or when they do break out of that barrier, according to their gut.
Hawthorne definately does not have a positive view of humans, just as most puritans didn't, especially when the first things they built were a jail and a cemetery. Hawthorne does not show the same kind of sin for all people. Like Abby said, Hawthorne shows two different types of sin; passion and evil. The sin of passion would be represented by Hester and her Scarlet Letter, and evil would be represented by Chillingworth.
Like many other people said, I believe that the core of human condition is love. Love is bsaically what kept Hester from leaving Boston, because she loved Dimmesdale and couldn't leave him. While love also caused Hester to commit adultery, I don't believe that this was even a bad thing, because it was all out of love.
I agree with what mostly everyone said about Hawthorne and his personal conception of the human condition. I think that Hawthrone has a negative judgement on people,and basically he belives that all humans are sinners(as abby w. mentioned)through his characters, Hawthorne showed the different types of sin that come from alternate motives, like hester's a sin of passion, compared to chillingworth's sin of revenge. Another point that lead me to beleive that Hawthorne had a more pessimistic veiw of human condition is the fact that the puritans were so strict within their society and religion. The harshness of puritanism portrayed by Hawthorne which we whitnessed throughout the novel shows me that he sees humanity as having more malevolence than goodwill.
-kim d.
To answer the second part of the question I would say that love is at the core of human condition. I think that humans are constantly looking for someone to love and someone to love them as well. I really like and agree with what ally said in that, in order to love others you have to love yourself. While being at the core of human condition, I would also say that love can shape people. For example, if someone didn't feel loved during thier childhood, it might be harder for them to give love back, to their own children or the people around them. Personally I feel that I am shaped by everything around me, be it school, friends, family, or anything. I also agree with sabah,it seems like everything in your life makes an impact on you, and how you react to that thing, makes you who you are, and that shapes your life.
-kim d.
Hawthorne's view of humanity was certainly a dark one; every one of his characters has major flaws, especially the main characters. Though he makes us like Hester and Dimmesdale by centering the book around them, they are sinners and, in Dimmesdale's case, hypocrites. I think what Hawthorne is trying to say through this is that no one is perfect, and most likely his view is that humans are naturally evil. However, Pearl gives us more insight into the matter--she, being the youngest character, is also the most innocent, and least flawed. She is not a sinner, though she was born out of sin (and others believe she is). So Pearl is a perfect example of a "blank slate"-- the idea that humans are born neutral and society, upbringing, and experiences all lead to what we become ("good" or "evil").
My opinion of the Human Condition is similar to Hawthorne's, in this sense. I don't think anyone can become any way without outside influence (and not just what parents teach their children). The desires to help or hurt others may evolve from experiences involving people being helped or hurt. The "curiosity" and "fear" that Mr. Alaimo mentioned may come in the same way.
In a similar way, relating to the last part of Mr. Alaimo's question, experiences and upbringing may just as easily influence people's view on human nature.
In light of all the things that have been said here (and elsewhere), I have to say that I don't think it's really possible to tell what's at the core of the Human Condition.
This probably shouldn't count as a second post, but I thought of something else.
When trying to think of examples of experiences that could change a person's "human condition" or their views on humanity, I realized that what I said before might not always be true. For example, if a person had some bad experience, they might want to help others to prevent them from going through the same thing; that person would be "good." But another person who went through the same experience might want to "hurt" others because of their anger and trauma; they're "evil." The difference between these people is in the Human Condition, but these were the events that were supposed to change that Human Condition. So it may be either that even deeper or older experiences influenced the condition (with which the same paradox could occur) or the Human Condition is not always neutral after all.
I believe Hawthorne's conception of the human condition has mostly to do with sin. Throughout the novel, Hawthorne shows we're all sinners. At some point in our lives we sin. We don't know everything, and we make mistakes. Curiosity and evil play a role in humans committing sins. Sometimes people try new things because they are curious about the outcome, and then they realize the problem they have caused afterward. Sin is evil in one way or another. Roger Chillingworth was being evil for taking revenge on Dimmesdale with no benefit. But sin can also be out of love. When Hester and Dimmesdale committed adultery, it was out of love for eachother. Pearl was definitly beneficial to Hester. Fear kept Dimmesdale from telling the truth about his sin for seven years. The people wouldn't accept a faulty minister. So, Hawthorne believes sin is at the core of the human condition. However, I believe love is at the core of the human condition based on my experiences. Every horrible sin committed has something to do with love. In soap opras, people are often driven to murder or destruction of themselves because they have lost the ones they loved, or they want to avenge the ones they have loved. We see people get sucked in by acoholism in real life because of their depressing, loveless lives. I agree with Dominica, people need love and strive to have it.
Like everyone has been saying, Hawthorne creates characters through "troubling times". I believe he does this due to the fact that he's guilt of what his ancestors had become and their role in life. As a result, he puts his guilt on to paper through this story, as it revolves around sin and guilt. Therefore, based on the Scarlet Letter, Hawthorne seems to show that he feels humanity in itself was evil from the start (like Erica mentions). He writes how the first two things ever built were a jail and a cemetery, which gives the motion that man was evil and sinful from the beginning. The description of the prison door and how its all worn also makes the impression that the jail was used for many years before. Overall, he describes how the humanity of people is based on their sins, as it guides their life and determines how they live. An example of this is Dimmesdale. The more he hid his sin, the worse his body got because it took so much out of him just to keep his sin hidden.
~Megan M.
Hawthorne's outlook on the human condition is based off of his strict Puritan religion. He was brought up believing that all humans are born to be evil. Hawthorne discusses that man was born with evil intent and how all people will do something wrong in their lives. My views contradict this. I believe that all humans are born with good intentions. How they turn out is based off of what happens to them throughout their lives. The events they go through shape them as a person. The misery that Hawthorne portrays through is characters are the perfect example of how what occurs shapes a person. I agree with Dominika when she said that love can shape you for better or for worse. Of course being loved makes you do well but there are times when love can turn to craziness.
I have such a positive outlook on humans. I have been shaped by the events that have occurred in my life and because I have a very loving family and amazing friends. There is so much happiness in my life and I have been taught a lot so that is why my opinion is the opposite of Hawthorne’s.
Like everyone has already mentioned, Hawthorne has a negative view of the human condition. He believes that humans are always sinning and are innately bad. However, Hester, who he introduced as a sinner, turned into a good person. I think Hawthorne wants to show that the human condition can be changed.
Dominika was right on when she said that love is at the core of the human condition. Everyone wants to be loved and have someone to love. When you don't have those opportunities, you can feel unworthy. Like Abby W. said, these feelings can lead to sin - which makes you human again.
A lot of what has been said, I agree with, but I don't really agree with a core trait being greed. Not everyone is greedy, and I don't think that that is a main element of humanity. I do like Guste's statement that curiosity turns into perseverance and goal-orientation, however, because many people do have goals and dreams, and these traits are some of the things that do make us better than animals.
We must be better than animals because we are intelligent, we have feelings and ideas that go beyond pure instincts like wanting food and protecting territory. We have ideas and we create things, and we maintain complex relationships with people. Animals are great, but humans are definitely more than animals.
I like Jonathan’s comment about Pearl being a “blank slate” and not sinful. This brings up what I feel is an important piece of the book, Puritanism. By the Puritan and other Christian faiths, Pearl is very sinful because she was never baptized, and so is full of original sin. Clearly, though, she is not. Obviously everyone who isn’t baptized isn’t evil, because many people who are atheists or of other religions are perfectly good. Sin can only be a theme in the context of religion, because sin is a religious idea. If you are not religious, there are simply good and bad deeds, and people are defined by their actions, but a bad deed does not mean that a person should be threatened with some image of eternal fire and suffering. Also, Pearl is an innocent child because she is only seven years old, which as Hawthorne was probably aware, is widely considered the “age of reason” in many faiths and so she is still learning right from wrong.
~GLORIA
In addition, I think that the enviornment kids grow up in and the different experiences people have shape people'es view on man. For instance, some people have experiences where they learn about the different types of people in the world. Such as, if you are betrayed by someone, you realize that some people are non-trustworthy and don't have good intentions. On the other hand, you can be best friends with someone and realize that there are generally good people out there. Sometimes in different situations you can learn people are selfish or evil. But, again, i think it definetly has to do with the experiences each one of us has had in life because if people had no experiences, then they would assume that everyone has good intentions, and thats not always the case.
Moreover, I think that the enviornment in which we grow up in affects our view on man too. This is because, our parents are the ones who teach us about life and people, therefore in a way, they are responsible for teaching us that there are different types of people in the world. However, we are supposed to learn these things through our experiences, but our parents do have influence on what we know beforehand.
Therefore, I do think that my parents have taught me what I know about the views of man, but I also think that through my experiences so far in life, I have shaped my views of man. I also think that my views on man will change throughout my life, as well as others, as we all go through different experiences.
-Abby Whalen
I think that the human condition is made up of a combination of love, curiosity, fear, sin and evil. How a human is shaped depends on every aspect of life which is listed above. Love is at the core of human condition. Everyone is loved by others or loves someone else. The most important love is that of humans loving each other instead of loving material items. Being loved and cared for and loving and caring for others creates happiness. Like Abby said, “We thrive and are able to grow as individuals based on our human interaction and contact,” I believe this to be so true. Love also shapes you as a person because loving yourself allows you to be happy and exceed in life. Curiosity is found in everyone. I think that curiosity is important because when you are curious you are able to learn and invent things, therefore us as humans can advance. If you are too curious though, you may get yourself into trouble.
I agree with what everyone else said about Hawthorne's view of man. He obviously saw humans to be born evil and that all people are sinners. This is expressed through the Scarlet Letter. The fact that Dimmesdale was made into a sinner, put an ironic twist on the story because he was supposed to be the one person who was pure and free of sins. I also agree with Sofiya that he believes that people are originally bad, but can evolve into someone better. Hester was first viewed as nothing but a sinner but as the story progressed, she became a good person and a character others looked up to.
I also believe, as Hiten said, that human condition is a mix of many different things. Although, some may play a larger role than others, it ultimately depends on the person.
~Jackie(:
I agree with a lot of what was already said in this post, but disagree as well.
I don't necessarily think that Hawthorne's view of man is evil, but rather, we all make mistakes. We all sin. We wouldn't be human without it. and if that makes people "bad", then it would be impossible to be a "good" person, since it's impossible to live a life without making any mistakes.
I think Hawthorne was more comparing how the Puritans of the time period thought humans were naturally evil. They thought all people were bad (the prison and the cemetery being the first things built in the town), and specifically pointed the finger at Hester (and later Dimmesdale) because their sin was revealed, believing they were so much worse than others, when, in fact, all people sin.
Hawthorne might just be pointing out that we make mistakes every day, but we can rise above them and still be good people. One bad decision does not have to shape your whole life, but you can learn from it and grow as a person because of it.
I think, like a lot of the previous posts, that love is at the core of the human condition. Everyone craves love. We all want to be loved, and we all want to love someone. Without love (not necessarily in the romantic sense), I don't think there would be a reason for us to live.
I think that's also why Chillingworth became such a terrible character - he was never loved by anyone, even Hester did not love him when she was married
to him.
I also think that humans are naturally good. No one is perfect, but I think we have a general, natural understanding of what is right and what is wrong. Although we will make mistakes constantly, we can understand what we've done wrong and learn to change.
Everyone is flawed in their own way, some more than others, but we all are. It doesn't make us "bad" but I think that it's the reason that we are all imperfect, and no human can ever be perfect.
-Molly
In my life, my family has shaped my view on man. My family is understanding and yet strict at the same time. By having my family with me at most difficult times, it seems as though the core of human condition is love. There are some people who truly want to be evil yet i feel that most of people i've been around don't do bad things just for the heck of it. So, judging by my view of humans and the world around me love at the core of most human hearts. -al
After reading other posts, I have to say there are some points I agree with and others I don't quite (although, like Mr. Alaimo said, we should be expanding and not limiting the knowledge).
First of all, I like the comments that humans are generally a mix of all the things mentioned, and even though I said that we are born "neutral" (neither bad nor good) that doesn't mean that none of these aspects are present or inherent in the human condition. Love, which seems to be a favorite here, is certainly present in many people, and can drive us to do both good and bad (such as the adultery in The Scarlet Letter), although of course different actions aren't always viewed in the same way by different people. Also, I like Erica's comment that describing the Human Condition as being made of any one of those things wouldn't be doing it justice.
I also agree with some other posts, which talk about how Hawthorne thought all humans are naturally sinners, but their sins differ (out of love or hate). But isn't what Hawthorne is saying here is that sin is almost in the eye of the beholder? Yes, Dimmesdale was torn up because he recognized what he did as sin, but as readers we don't really think of Hester and Dimmesdale as bad people. It has to do in a large part with religion, as some people (Shehryar, Hiten) were saying. But I don't think religion can possibly be at the core of the Human Condition because there are some, agnostics or atheists, who have little to do with religion and are no less "human" than others.
So, basically, I've spent all that time identifying what isn't really at the core of the Human Condition. But maybe that's the whole point--humans are too complex to be identified using only one or a few traits.
Hawthorne's view of humanity was evidently negative, and a bit realistic. Hawthorne showed his pessimistic views, as many of you have mentioned, by giving his characters "major flaws" (Jon Kane). He believed that people were sinners and doomed to make many mistakes in their lives. He also showed that sin could have been done for different reasons, such as love or hatred. He also showed how these sins affected the lives of his characters; Hester learned to be strong and take responsibility and all the blame for her and Dimmesdale's sin out of love. Dimmesdale suffered for his silence because he felt an overwhelming and grave guilt of his sin, and because of the sin that the two committed, it drove Chillingworth into a crazed, obsessed, and revenge thirsty man. Hawthorne strongly believed that people were not good and were condemned to sin. His view was also a bit realistic because he obvious didn't try to delude himself into thinking that life and people were all rainbows and butterflies, and life came with mistakes and hardships. He also makes the reader question the meaning of good and evil and sin in his book.
I feel that there is no one thing at the core of human condition. Its made up of many things. If I would have to say which would play the largest part in the human condition, I would say that love is at the center of the human condition. I believe that love is something that we as humans yearn for. For some people, they don't exactly want to live for themselves, but for loved ones such as family. Love sometimes gives us a greater purpose for our actions. We often question ourselves before making our decisions on how it will effect our beloved ones. I would also agree that curiosity plays a part in our lives. We are constantly seeking knowledge of some type or another. We like to try to find new things, increase our knowledge in many ways. I like to learn because it was the way i was raised, and i love my family and my friends, and I try to be good to others because it was the way i was raised. What if we were raised to only harm and kill others? Would support Hawthorne's belief of how people are sinners?
I think that this whole entire discussion brings up nature vs. nurture and if whether or not we do the things we do because it is our nature or the way we were raised.I would also agree with what Shehryar says about how religious may be at the "base."
There are many things in my life that have shaped my view on mankind. I learn a great deal from my family,my friends, and the other people in my life. The experiences in my life also teach me a lot about how people are and may be. I believe that no one is born sinful and everyone has the potential and the capability to be good or try to do the right thing.I think that personal experiences and life shapes a person. I think that people, in all fairness, want things in life, like wanting to be loved, to give themselves a purpose. My religion has helped shaped some of my views, but i think that by being in the environment I grew up in, i was taught to respect everyone's believes and not to be judging or discriminatory. I hope one day that people will want to create harmful things, like ingredients for biochemical warfare or other weapons, out of hate or even curiosity, because like everything else, there should even be a limit to hate and curiosity.
-Summia:)
I agree with Jon about the fact that humans should not be identified as having one "trait" so to speak. I still think that curiosity is a major underlying factor of why we do things, but as i said that dies down for many of us after some time. i think that after a certain point, or age rather, we gather so much onformation and influence from others that we become a mix of everyone we meet. I think that based on our initial knowledge(after leaving the curiosity state) we add on to ourselves by meeting others and absorbing characteristics based on our beliefs. They aren't always the best one, which is why we need to be careful who we spend time with. In general, what I am saying is that people are amix of different factors, which makes us all the same and different.
I also agree with Lianna about the fact that everyone makes mistakes, and that the intensity of the mistake is in the eye of the beholder, as Jon put it. I also think that because of that, the individual with the mistake is the most important beholder, but should also see their mistake through the eyes of others. This is what happened in the Crucible when John Proctor did not forgive himself for his sin until he had made up for it. I think that he is the one that judged himself more harshly than anyone else. I think that this is the case in many of us, we are tougher on ourselves than others are on us. There are also people who are the opposite of that, which once again goes back to the point that people cannot be described as one term.
After reading all of the 37 posts, I can say that I agree mostly with Molly. Before reading these posts I thought that Hawthorne believed people were born evil. Throughout ones life one had to prove to themself and God that they were good. Although I still do believe this, I like the thought that Molly presented. It technically is not possible to be a good person because every single person makes mistakes. I'm very sure that everyone has made a mistake in their life of some sort, big or small. This doesn't consider them evil. The sin or mistake may/will have an importanmt impact on your life but it will not label you for life.
Personally I feel that love is at the core of the human condition. Feeling loved and giving off love are two of the most important aspects of being a human. No matter what age you are, you want to feel loved. When looking at life from a different angle, you can conclude that everything revolves around love. In the book Dimmesdale and Hester sinned because of love, Pearl was born our of love, Chillingworth was envious because of his love, etc. It is something that all people strive for and that cannot be denied.
In the end, I do believe that man is born natuarally good. When a child, you normally do things in a positive manner and for poitive reasons. At that point in life, there is no reason for a person to be evil. I believe that the way you are raised coincides directly with whether you are "good" or "evil." Since in my opinion all are born pure and free of sin, there has to be something in ones life that causes them to change for the worst, in some cases the way one is raised. This does not necessarily apply to all though. It doesn't apply to all situations because at a certain point in ones life, you can make decisions for yourself. Although the way you are raised may have an influence on what you do in the future, it is not the deciding factor. No one can be blamed for your actions but yourself. So in this case, I mostly disagree with Hawthorne.
*Mindy
I agree with Molly about the way that Hawthorne displays human nature, but I somewhat agree and disagree with the idea that love is the core of human nature. True, all of us crave love but we also crave many other emotions such as feeling power, feeling happiness (not all happiness comes out of love), or other physical necessities. Although love does, indeed, play quite a large role among other human desires, it does not always control our lives. Often times, curiosity, determination, anger, fear or sorrow control our lives and determine our fate. For example, there may be a scientist will devote his life to science, or such as in the Puritan’s case, paranoia will drive you into a corner of fear. In both cases, one may even notice their life without love and perhaps may never truly experience it.
This is strictly my opinion, but I believe we live in a romantic and peaceful time where we focus on the optimistic of humanity and give ourselves more credit than we really deserve. As many had mentioned before, it depends on a person and their experiences. A World War I solider or a survivor of famine may have completely disagreed with us, while maybe a poet or a just politician may have agreed.
-Natalia
I think hawthorne has mixed feelings about humanity. He shows us this in his story, Scarlet letter. First in the begining of the the story, Hawthorne is almost in directly telling us that humans are bored sinners and they are natural bad. But as you get deeper into the story, Hawthorne shows us his other side of humanity. For example, after hester showed her sin to the whole crowd, 7 years later hester became a stronger person by telling her true self.
I think there are mixed feelings in Juman conditions. From sin, fear, to love and hate. I think this because not everyone in this world have been born with hate and not everyone is born with fear. To be honest, the number one thing that shapes my veiw of men is hate. I think hate is the biggest because only reason you have hate is if you had love to start off. Like in Scarlet letter, Chillingwroth showed hate towards Dimmesdale beacause he had love for his wife.
i definitely agree with molly on this.
i don't think that hawthorne thinks that "humans have and always will be evil/bad." he shows through the characters of Hester and Dimmesdale, that each and every person makes mistakes. However, they can redeem themselves through their subsequent actions. Furthermore, through the character of Chillingworth, it's pretty obvious that we see him as the 'bad guy.' However, as we have discussed in class previously (atleast in period 1) can we really blame Chillingworth for the way he acted? I mean, if we ask ourselves, would we truly act any different than he did if we put ourselves in his situation?
On another note, since Hester and Dimmesdale committed their sin out of love, does that really make theirs any less worse than Chillingworth's?
There's not really a definite answer, or way to decide the degree of 'wrongness' of a sin. So, as Jonathon said, it's in the eyes of the beholder. Who are we to judge how bad others' sins are?
I do believe that love is at the core of human condition because its absolutely vital to the growth and development of humans, since birth. But, in addition, I think curiosity also plays a major role, and occupies a big space in human condition. Most of the time, it's curiosity which drives us to sin and do wrong. It's curiosity that pushes us toward learning our limits in different situations. It's curiosity, actually, which helps each of us develop as a person; and become more aware and able to/in our surroundings.
Hawthorne's views show that we as humans are evil. We only pay attention to the unfavorable qualities of others. Also,rather than getting to know a person, we judge them by the mistakes they have made.
I believe that love, curiosity, fear, sin and evil are all at the core of the Human Condition. Each person is different, not everyone is loving and not everyone is evil. This is why all these different aspects are apart of the core of the Human Condition.
My family and friends have shaped my views on man. They have taught me that people can be loving and selfless, by caring for others' needs rather than just their own. However, the media has taught me that man is also evil. All the war and fighting, has made me believe that man is not perfect, we are sinners as well. As Abby said, "Everyone struggles with temptation, needs, and emotions."
After reading Sabah's post, I agree on her statement about how people can make mistakes and they can fix their mistakes by doing "special types of things." For example, Hester fixed her mistake by wearing the Scarlet letter A for seven stright years and people started to change their veiw of her. To anwser Sabah's question about if we can blame Chillingworth about what he did, I think we can because instead of hurting someone else doesn't fix anything. Two wrongs don't make a right.
If I was in Chillingworth's position, I would have done something different then hurting someone else. If you think about it, he is as bad as Hester and Dimmesdale if not worse because what Hester and Dimmesdale did was out of love. And what Chillingwroth did was out of hate and he was trying to hurt someone.
I think Hawthorne was mainly trying to say that every human sins, ever since the creation of man. Since he was a Puritan, he believed in the story of Adam and Eve. He showed this by having one of the most respected people in the town commit adultery. I don't think Hawthorne believed men are naturally evil, but that we're all imperfect, and even the greatest of men can fall.
I would agree that love is at the core of the human condition, mainly the belief in loving your neighbor and loving God before all things. My religion is my main influence on this concept so I can see how having different faiths and ideas creates different opinions.
As to the second part of the question presented, I believe that at the core of the human condition is love, which most people have pointed out. This is because love can determine your character. For instance, people who are loved enjoy a happy life and are more open to others. However, people out there who aren't loved as much seem to hide their character and aren't as open to others because the people they knew weren't open to them. Therefore, without love, there is nothing to really help shape character. In addition, love plays a major role today as many people look for "soulmates" and their "one true love" to get married, in which they can begin to start a family to share their love. So, it can be seen how important love is. However, this doesn't mean that the core of the human condition doesn't contain sin, fear, and evil because they all play some part in everyone's character. Also, they are what influence the variety of characters of each human people, depending on what is at their core. But like John points out, humans are complex and have many traits that play into part. In my life, my family and experiences have shaped my views on man. Furthermore, the opinions of others of society have also shaped the views of man, whether it be through the news or other sources of media and how they put different perspectives in front of us.
While reading some of these comments about Hawthorne's view of humanity, I am still agreeing with the thought of how he believes that people make mistakes. Like Grace saiad, Hawthorne views humans, as humans. He shows us in his novel that everyone is imperfect and is subject to sin. I don't think Hawthorne believes that man is naturally evil, just that man is flawed.
Like Grace and Abby B. said, I too agree (after reading all of the comments) that "Hawthorne views humans as humans." I also agree with what Abby B. said before we are shaped by our surroundings. Overall, I agree with most of the comments that were posted.
*Didn't proof-read before I posted. Here's the edited version of the comment I deleted.
After reading some more of the posts, I agree with Molly that Hawthorne probably didn't feel that humans were evil, but just made mistakes. If you think about it, Hawthorne isn't portraying Hester or Dimmesdale as "bad". He's showing us that everyone makes mistakes and that makes us human.
I also agree with Jon that human nature is too complex to pinpoint what is at the core. How can we define the core of human nature when humans are so diverse?
I believe Hawthorne through the Scarlet Letter, was telling us that it's human for us to sin, lie, hate, give into tempetation, but he's also telling us that it's human for us to love, care, and think fondly of others. His characters like Hester, Chillingworth, Dimmesdale, and the townspeople show us all what our nature is. We can be hypocrites and selfish like the townspeople were to Hester. We can sin like Chillingworth who caused harm to others. But also, we can sin out of love like Hester and Dimmesdale.
Like Hiten, I also feel that there is no single answer to what the core of the Human Condition is. We all feel these emotions throughout our lives. Nobody's perfect. We feel guilt when we have sinned, we get scared, and we love those who are close to us. It's human for us to do or feel these conditions. For me, seeing my family and many other's families made me realize how loving and caring for someone plays a big role on my views on man.
I think that Hawthorne was trying to show us that there is a mix of sin and love inside all of us, even those who seem completely pure or completely evil. He uses Dimmesdale as a "good" character with hidden sin to show that people are not always as they seem. Chillingworth, the "bad" character, once had loved, or at least respected, Hester as his wife. His feelings toward her provoked his actions toward Dimmesdale (befriending him as an act of vengeance) and his change for the worse. Hester, the protagonist, had exposed her sin (adultery), yet in her heart also felt love for Pearl and Dimmesdale.
I agree with Athena. The human condition is a mix of sin and love. It's a combination of everything: love, curiousity, fear sin, and evil. Nobody only lives by one of those. They're all interconnected, so humans act out of love, curiousity, fear, and sometimes evil. These create sin in their own ways. The qualities of our characters may seem different, but we really all have the same basic characteristics. It's just the way they mesh together that makes us have different personalities and views. One could love more than another. One could be more curious than another, but we all have some amount of love, curiousity, fear, sin, and evil within us.
I have to agree with Athena. It's true that Hawthorne was trying to show that at the very core of the human condition, is a mix of love and sin. Hester, who was seen as a sinner to those she interacted with, was at her very core filled with love because her sin was a passionate love filled sin where no one was really harmed. Another example of this would be Pearl. People see her as an evil devil child born out of sin, however what they do not see is that she is a good person who loves both her mother and Dimmesdale, her father. The opposite of this would be Chillingworth, whose outward demeanor is one of evil, vengeance, and sin. but really still loves his wife Hester and wishes to see Dimmesdale suffer for what he did with her. This all reflects back to how Hawthorne feels about people in general, that they are evil, selfish, and sinful.
Once again, I believe the question is flawed. I even read a Wiki article to get a better understanding of it. However, the same glitch has continued to nag me ever since we started learning the contemporary philosophies about human nature in World Civ.
How can you ever hope to determine the nature of man in general, encompassing every one of billions of us, without exception? We have more similarities than dissimilarities, and are obviously capable of many of the same things, but do you really believe that, underneath it all, the fabric of the Hitlers and al-Bashirs of the world can be congruent with that of the Mother Theresas and Gandhis? Do you really belive that one functions on the same constituents as the next? I don't.
That being said, I disagree with those who think Hawthorne thinks people are evil by nature--sinners, yes, but in context sin does not equate to evil (almost the opposite). Throughout the book he informs us of the various principles of the Puritan society, which probably seem even less logical in today's age than when it was written. Frankly, Hawthorne wasn't exactly an advocate for this religious sect. Most of the points he highlights were problems he had identified. The VERY FIRST PRINCIPLE that is made known is that the Puritans had a pessimistic view of man. They immediately constructed the jail when they arrived, both to remind the society of the repercussions for wrongdoing, and to make sure they had a place to put those who committed the wrongs. If Hawthorne agreed with this point of view, he would never present it in such poor light, especially when he hints at his dissent for their ways throughout the rest of the book.
I see Paul's point. I guess it is not that the people themselves are naturally evil, but that the society in which they live has a larger impact upon how they act and believe others should behave. For example, in Puritan society, which is very strict, oppressive, and believe that people are naturally sinful, causes the people who lived within that society tended to believe in harsh punishment and that people who sin are horrible people, even though they all sin themselves. they brand people for one sin, one act of wrongdoing makes them a horrible person for the rest of their life, though many of them commit multiple sins. In contrast with that, modern society is not as harsh for minor mistakes, and doesn't frown upon people who commit sins. However people still see sinning as "bad" but we don't emphasize it and center our society around it the way Puritan society did.
Taylor
Throughout the Scarlet Letter, Hawthorne centralizes the novel around dark themes about human nature that make us really question good and evil and the true nature of humanity.
Hawthorne’s view of humans comes off to be very pessimistic and doubtful of whether or not humans are good by nature. I think that what Paul said about what Hawthorne’s view of human nature is interesting. We have been saying that Hawthorne obviously thinks that human nature is evil, but what if we we’re wrong and what Hawthorne is actually trying to get across about human nature is that we are sinners or that we tend to sin and give in to evil. There is a difference between being evil and giving into evil. You can be the most saintly and honest person but give into something bad. Man is not perfect and we aren’t supposed to be. Yes, Hawthorne tends to focus on the bad sides that humans can possess but I think that somewhere in all of that there are “signs” of good. In the final scaffold scene Dimmesdale finally does the right thing and confesses his sin to everyone because he felt like that was the right thing to do. He frees himself away from the bad and is triumphant over his sin. That was one example that good triumphs over evil.
Now that I read some of the other posts, I agree with Athena and other people how there is both love and sin in every human. Like I said before, earlier on Roger Chillingworth did love Hester. Then his love turned to hate for Dimmesdale which caused him to be so vengeful which ended up causing him to sin. But I also agree with what Hiten said how there is a mix of different things in everyone. All of the different characteristics in humans are what makes us human, so like Erica said, none should be singled out.
Things in my life that have shaped my views on man are just the influence of other people around me. Seeing how people behave around different people did make me realize that most people do things out of love. So if one thing about humanity did have to be singled out, I would still say its love.
I agree too that Hawthorne thinks negatively about humans especially when he had that influence from his ancestors with the witch trials. I don't think his life was the happiest. I mean, he locked himself out of society for twelve years. But I do think that he doesn't think of humans as naturally bad; they just do bad things because of the society.
The world's an unfair place and sometimes it's every man for himself. So I do think that we are naturally selfish to protect ourselves and get our needs. Yet, we do love and care and if we are strongly devoted to a person, we could even die for them. Nobody's perfect like I've said before; we all sin. There are those few people like Saddam Hussein and Binladen that make the world seem bad, but I believe humansare more likely to do good than evil.
Like others have already said, I think that Hawthorne was trying to show through the Scarlet Letter that people are naturally evil. This is because he makes it a point to show that all of the people in the town have sinned. Also, he makes it out to seem like Pearl was born evil, and she was referred to as a "devil child"
Personally, I think that humans were actually all born good. However, I think that throughout peoples lifetimes, they do commit sins, but like Molly said it does not make them "bad" people. I don't think that there really are any bad people in this world, however people do make bad decisions. This is probably why Hawthorne feels that people are naturally bad.
I agree with Taylor's idea that society affects the way you view the human condition, like how the Puritans consider all humans sinners. And I agree with Paul said, that the most evil person couldn't have the same thing at their core than someone like Ghandi... It's just weird to think that these people were all at one time an innocent baby with no concept of good or evil. So I guess your experiences and the environment you grow up in definitely shapes your core.
I think Sara has a very good point (and everyone else who has brought up the same idea), that the human condition is a mixture of all different characteristics and traits. It is the precise combination of these traits that differentiates from one person to the next. We all have, to some degree, each of these attributes, but in differing dominance. Some might exhibit love more so than fear, and others may seem more curious than evil. Each of our personalities is different and that is what makes us human.
From what we have read about Hawthorne and from his writing we can kind of figure out that Hawthorne sees people as being people. Some are nicer than others, some just have an evil heart, but not matter how nice or bad you are everyone sins. It is human nature to sin, and not just that it's human nature but we are born with sin already. So once you are born with it of course you are tempted to do it again. And I think that is how Hawthorne sees things. As good and evil, they both balance each other out. Just because a person sins doesn't make them bad, just as long as they repent for their sins and try not to do them again.
I feel that at the core of human condition it is curiosity. I think this because people are curious by nature so they are curious about the decisions they make. They think how the decisions they make will benefit them or get them into trouble and that is why people sin because they are curious about if they can get away with the wrong things that they do and if they will get rewarded for the good things they do. Does anyone understand where I'm coming from? But curiosity also goes with fear. Because some people commit sins because they are curious about the outcome of their actions. They just want to see which person will react to what they have done.
There are many things in my life that has shaped my views on man. One of these things is how different people react to things. My parents will react differently to something I have done than my friends would. Also though, my best friend Heidi has taught me a lot about being a true friend and what it means to be a caring person. She has showed me that there are people out there that really do care and they will always stand by you no matter how hard you try to push them away. She puts people before herself. And that is one reason for why I don't think all people are evil. These people just sometimes have bad thoughts that lead into actions and sins. Along with that though I have met some people along the way who are just plan out mean and don't care about anyone but themselves. Even thought it make look like that I know that deep down they do care about someone and they are caring and loving people they just have a harder time expressing it like others can do. So basically, I do think that man is naturally good and caring. Just sometimes they have road blocks that make they bad/evil.
In my other post, I didn't focus on what has shaped my views on man. Like Ally had already said, I think that every individual day of my life has shaped my views on man. Making mistakes, watching others make mistakes, trying to fix mistakes, and watching others try to fix mistakes truely shows me what it means to be a person. The mistakes that we make show that we are all not perfect but are not considered to be evil. The attempt to fix what we had done shows that people are good and want to make up for the wrong things in their life, most people, that is.
I agree with those who said that man is a mix of various characteristics. Like many of you have said, you can't base a whole population on one person. Just because someone has done something completely evil doesn't mean everyone else in this world will do the same. Everyone is different, some people are good and some people are evil.
I thought what Paul had said was very interesting when he said,"How can you ever hope to determine the nature of man in general, encompassing every one of billions of us, without exception?" We wouldn't be capable of generalizing the human nature of all of mankind because we are all diverse. We all had had different experiences, situations, and made different choices in our lives. We wouldn't be able to generalize mankind because we are constantly changing and there are to extreme ends present, like Paul mentioned( Hitler-Mother Theresa.
I would also agree with Molly when she said,"we have a general, natural understanding of what is right and what is wrong." As we grow up we learn everyday what would be the "right" and "wrong" thing to do. When we're very young and our parents are teaching us to say" mommy" or "daddy," we notice how when we say or do the 'right' thing it makes the ones we love, excited or become very content. There is a quote, "Quod nocet, saepe docet," which means "That which harms, also teaches. We learn from our mistakes because we see how our mistakes hurt ourselves or others. Dimmesdale shows how he learned from his mistake of keeping his silence, which slowly ate away ate himself.
I agree with what Mindy and Ally said about every day shaping your views on the human condition. I think that as you grow up and learn more about yourself, you realize that it is true that nobody is perfect. Also, you are constantly learning from mistakes that you have made, and trying to make yourself into a better person. I think that this is why I believe that people really are not born evil, because the majority of people want to do good and make the right decisions in life. Usually people do not go into something planning on doing something wrong, and they do not plan to sin. Therefore, I don't think anyone can be evil unless they really and truly want to make themselves out to be so.
I think it's interesting what Paul said about "in context sin does not equate to evil (almost the opposite)". That is a different angle, but if you think about then to be a "sinner" you have to realize that what you did was wrong, and knowing right from wrong is part of what makes a person good (I'm not saying that's all of it, obviously people who know right from wrong choose the wrong thing all the time).
After reading more posts, I can see why people would say love is one of the main traits. I don't know what i'd do without the love and support of my family and friends. Pretty much every action a person takes is based off of love in some way. I also agree that curiousity plays a role. People always want to expand their knowledge and learn new things. On the other hand, like many others already said, and like I said before, I still believe there isn't one single core to Human Condition. It is a mix of many traits.
~Jackie(:
..i didn't mean to delete it before (:
I agree with Paul on the fact that Hawthorne was pointing out that the philosophy that man is evil was a problem he was pointing out.
No one else has really brought up the idea that Hawthorne was scoffing the idea, because it was what the Puritans thought and he did not agree with any of their ideas. He was instead pointing out their flaws.
I think that Hawthorne's view of man, was, in fact, the opposite of that. Like I said before, he was just pointing out human nature - that is, that humans will naturally sin, but it doesn't make us all bad people. By the end of the novel, Hawthorne convinces us (or most of us?) that Dimmesdale and Hester still good people, despite of their sins - so how would that prove that his view of man is evil?
It just shows that, like I said before, all man is flawed and makes mistakes, but it doesn't make us bad.
**the last post was by me. I forgot to sign my name and it won't let me delete/edit my post.
-Molly.
After reading everyone's comments I now understand why people say there is more to the core of human condition than just one thing. It is a combination of all of them because they all intertwine with each other. Also I agree with everyone that wrote about what Paul said. I really like what Paul said here, "We have more similarities than dissimilarities, and are obviously capable of many of the same things, but do you really believe that, underneath it all, the fabric of the Hitlers and al-Bashirs of the world can be congruent with that of the Mother Theresas and Gandhis?" What he said is so true. People always say there is not two persons that are exactly alike, yes that may be true but a lot of people see things they same way and they feel the same about things. For example when 9/11 happened everyone united and came together as one. So like Paul said we are more alike than different it just depends on the situation.
Hawthorne most likely saw humanity as something that would sin no matter the situation. As a result he also feels that humanity needs to be punished through their sins. However their punishment is based upon the grounds and animosity of their sin. A sin of passion and love is not as bad as a sin of hate and contempt. An example of this is the difference between Hestor and Chillingsworth.
My views on the human condition are based mostly on the term "tabula rasa." Literally this means blank slate in Latin but it is also an epistemological term to show that humanity as a whole, when born, is not swayed by any emotion or moral alignment. People are innately neither good nor bad. It is their surroundings and environment that cause what they are as adults. A lot of the things that people blame on "fate" and "human nature" is really just the imprint of others on the psychological well being of whoever is being spoken about. Another term that contributes to my beliefs is "I am nothing if not the product of my upbringing." This shows how the parents play a heavy role on the child's personality. The parents have the most contact with the child and as a result it is their teachings and habits that carry on through the child. The more prominent the personality quirk, the more likely it is that it is passed on.
-Alex Krutt
I only addressed a narrow piece of this question in the second part of my previous post, whether Hawthorne thinks people are naturally good/evil. I concede that Hawthorne was likely a pessimist, but my point was that he thought people are not evil at heart, that Puritans viewed sin as being a product of a corrupt soul, instead of a human. Basically, they made too big of a deal of it, and many theories were based on this imperfect assumption. As Hawthorne used Dimmesdale's personal dialogue to show, Dimmesdale was safer on the line of virtue as a result of being a sinner than had he not, therefore saying that Dimmesdale (and Hester), the sinner, was a better person than the majority who claimed to be sin-free. This can be extrapolated to mean that Hawthorne believed it to be entirely possible for sinners, namely severe sinners to be be better than those who were more guilt-free. Since it is human nature to sin, one could argue that au naturale, humans are good, and that Hawthorne believed this (or that at the least, he didn't think a devout Puritan faith equated goodness).
In my life, I have been sculpted by family values, reading/research, the media ("bad news sells"), and personal experience. I tend to steriotype people. I can be very cynical about the widespread corporate and governmental corruption, for example, but also be very trusting of people based on intuition. Sometimes it... well... it bites me in the ass, and I become that much more cynical, but occasional acts of goodness can contribute to my trusting side even more.
As for the very core of human condition, the only equating factor I can produce is that people act out of necessity to either promote happiness or satisfaction. Essentially, there must be something in it for themselves, be the benefit physical, emotional, monetary, spiritual, humanitarian, or in unfortunate cases detrimental. This theory can be applied to the motives for love, greediness, kindness, growing artistically or intellectually, or revenge. I cannot depict a single instance in which this basic driving factor is not at work in some way. There are none or few exceptions to this because it covers such a wide spectrum of human action and thought.
Dimmesdale was a coward. Simply put. But what exactly is the definition of a coward. One who succumbs to fear. I'm sorry fellow mankind, but that's one of the key ways to be a human. Other criteria include possessing opposable thumbs, an inflated sense of self-worth, insatiable appetite for consumer goods (nowadays), an insane amount of contradiction, hypocrisy rampant in one's life, and the Free Will. There are heroes, and heroes are usually those who surpass typical humans. We may be the most accomplished species of Animalia on the Planet Earth, but that's not enough to make up for our infinite flaws. Notice how whenever someone says "I'm just human," it's ALWAYS associated with a mistake. Therein lies your answer. I felt that Hawthorne did an exceptional job portraying the way Hester and Dimmesdale were ostracized. We are supposed to be a combination of logic and faith. The successors to this 25,000 mile diameter, gorgeous planet we call Earth. There's diamonds in the rough here and there, but overall we are a race that seeks to benefit us, tsktsk. I am very glad my classmates are nice, deep, and loyal to Mr. Alaimo. These are the bright minds I'm looking for to lead our nation. Esotericism.
Post a Comment